Oliur is a designer, creator and developer who started making money online in 2010. He quickly saw the potential of digital products after seeing his Tumblr themes significantly increase his income. That quickly evolved into creating other digital products and delving into YouTube, which resulted in Oliur having multiple income streams.
In this episode of Creators on Air, we talk all about digital products as a revenue stream that creators should consider and how to find the right product for your audience.
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Oliur: Inter learning design properly, learning web design properly, learning how to code exploded my income from making a few dollars.
To like making thousands oer
Akta: started making money online in 2010 and quickly saw the potential of digital products, even with two YouTube channels with over 340,000 subscribers. Collectively, digital products are still an important part of his business model, and in today's episode of Creators and Air OER explains why this is a revenue stream creators should consider, and how to find the right product.
Oliur: It was like 2010, 2011. It was never like big money. It was like, you know, just a couple of dollars here and there. And I think the first item I ever sold online were just like some icons that you could put on your phone. Um, and then f from there sort of evolved into learning design properly, properly learning web design properly, learning how to code.
And then I think 2014. 20 13, 20 14 is when it really started. The ball started rolling basically.
Akta: Why was that? What were you doing?
Oliur: That was when I started making the Tumblr themes. Um, and Tumblr back then was very popular, so that sort of exploded my income from making a few dollars to like making thousands.
Akta: Wow. And even now, you're still making digital products online, even though YouTube has been so successful. What is it about digital products that you. Like so much
Oliur: about, I think it's because with digital products, right? The best thing about them is that the sort of effort to uh, I guess return on the investment ratio is so high.
Like I could, for example, make a website template or make a, a wallpaper pack or something in a day, in a couple of days, and then I put it off a sale and I don't have to think about it anymore. It will just naturally keep getting sales, naturally keep making money, and I think that is what makes it. So much Val, so were really valuable to me because there's this sort of like infinite scale on it and from doing physical products as well.
I know the sort of benefits of. Both sides. And I know they're sort of cons on both sides. And I think I would always choose digital products over physical products. Really. I think that's
Akta: so interesting because I feel like a lot of YouTubers, big YouTubers especially focus on merch. Mm-hmm. Rather than digital products.
So what would you say are like the pros and the cons of each that, you know, you'd find that additional products far outweigh much. Oh
Oliur: yeah. More physical products. Good. That's a really good question actually. So with the physical products, There, like making physical products takes a lot of time. Like, you've got to talk to manufacturers, you've got to talk to maybe some sort of fulfillment company or something.
Uh, you've gotta work with them on designs. You've gotta make sure the quality of the product is good enough. And then even then, once you've got all of that right, you still have to, sometimes it depends on who you're working with. Sometimes you have to put the money up front to buy the stock. Uh, sometimes, uh, you have to like, um, Refine, I guess as well, the product all the time, because the first iteration might not be perfect.
And then once you've got all that ready, you obviously have to market it to your audience. But the biggest problem I've found is that we live in a day and age where people want things instantly. So if it's not delivered tomorrow, people like, where's my product? Like, you know, where is it? I haven't got it.
So the customer service and the sort of, um, Reward for the customer buying the product. It's just a, there's a, a lot larger delay than there is when it comes to digital. Comes to digital products. And
Akta: what types of digital products, like have you offered, or do you think are available to creators to even think about?
Oliur: that varies there very much on the creator, right? Because, um, I think for someone like me who's working in tech, who's working in business related stuff, it can be quite easy to, to make digital products because my audience are interested in those sorts of things. But if you're, for example, like, I dunno, like say you're a comedian on YouTube or you are of Logger or something like that, or like you're doing videos that are more entertaining, like say Mr.
Beast, um, I think it's much harder to do digital products that way because your audience isn't really catered to that. So I think it really depends on the audience. Like from my audience, I found that Lightroom presets, um, the course that I have that I've just released recently, um, do really well. The wallpapers, they do okay, but the wallpapers, I make them because I'm interested in making, they don't actually make as much money as I think some people think they make.
Um, but it's because I used them on my phone, on my laptop and stuff. I kind of think to myself, it's just easy to market them and easy to. To put them a as a link in the description. Yeah.
Akta: So how did you actually go about deciding like what digital products would work for your audience? Like what was the process like?
Oliur: I think it's seeing other people do it because I remember, especially with Lightroom presets, Lightroom presets, I think was one of the first, um, digital products I did for like YouTube. For my YouTube audience. Um, and I, I, like, I, I saw Peter McKinnon do them years ago, and I thought to myself, oh, actually, if you know Peter McKinnon is making great money from doing it, then why shouldn't I as well?
Yeah. So I think it's just seeing other creators do it, but there's always that risk. And I think Peter McKinnon also had that where, When you make something that sometimes is well can be available for free online, that you can get presets online for free. You can get wallpapers online for free. There's always gonna be some people who are like, what are you doing charging for something like this?
Um, but I think your actual followers who care about your work are, are gonna, are gonna spend the money either way and will support you regardless. Mm-hmm.
Akta: Are there any creators that have done dish products really well that you are like, oh, that's a really good idea, a really good way of monetizing.
Oliur: I think Thomas Frank's probably one of the best examples.
Mm-hmm. Um, he's obviously, he, he had his main channel, the Thomas Frank channel, and then he made the second channel, Thomas Frank Explains, and he's just gone all in on marketing notion, and I think he's the best example of, you don't need a millions of followers to make a million dollars a year. Like, you know, as long as you're sort of hyper focused.
He's a fantastic example who's just like making a whole new channel, making a whole new marketing funnel and and marketing on top of notion.
Akta: Yeah, I mean that's interesting as well. Cause you started a second channel as well. Was it for similar reasons that you wanted to focus on something a bit more specific?
Oliur: Yeah, like I, I think my tech channel was so focused on obviously tech stuff that I did upload a few finance videos on the tech channel first. And I kind of just got the impression that my audience isn't too interested in this, but I am. So I think it made sense to just make a second channel. So the audiences on those two channels don't actually overlap much whatsoever.
They are very Oh really? Two very different audiences. Yeah, for sure. Um, which, which I think is actually quite interesting because when I mentioned I have a tech channel on my finance channel, I get so many comments. So like people be like, oh, I didn't even know you had a tech channel. I didn't know you had a bigger.
Another channel that's bigger than this channel. So the audiences are very different. So
Akta: what's your current revenue streams across your business and how does that kind of differ for each channel? Like which, you know, do you know what I mean? Like what funnels through from
Oliur: what? Yeah. Um, the tech channel is definitely like wallpapers and presets and things like that.
Uh, the finance channel, I haven't really done any crazy sort of marketing on that channel yet. Because that channel already makes very good money from like AdSense and sponsorships and stuff. I'm kind of just building up the audience. But, um, I do drive a lot of people to my newsletter from that channel, from my finance channel.
And the idea is that I would build the newsletter as much as I can so that I'm not so reliant on a YouTube channel. Emails are just so much more valuable than just having a subscriber account. I'd much rather have like, You know, 10,000 email subscribers, then a hundred thousand YouTube subscribers. Um, cuz like with email, you have a direct access to their inbox.
And the way I see it is I'm building up that email list so that when I do release products, when I do have new things coming out, I could market it directly to them rather than having to go through YouTube.
Akta: So is that the main way that you promote products then, or do you also mention them in videos or like on social?
Oliur: I do mention 'em in videos as well. Um, but it really depends on the video. But in the email, in the, in the newsletter, I mention anything new that I'm working on, even before I mention it anywhere else. So I think the people who are subscribed to the newsletter are much more interested in what I have to say and what I'm doing.
Akta: Yeah. And how do those revenue streams differ? So like compared to sponsorships and absence, how much is like digital products bringing you in? Like is it as steady as that? Is it. As much as
Oliur: that. Yeah, it's, it's really all over the place. This is probably gonna be one of my best months when it comes to digital products, apart from Tumblr themes, cuz I think when I was doing Tumblr themes, um, like this was like 20 14, 20 15, some months it was making like 30,000 a month from tumble themes.
Oh wow. Um, which is obviously ridiculous back then. Um, now the YouTube channel and everything else altogether makes more than that every month. Um, but for example, this month from digital products alone, We are, yeah, 31st of March, we're like at just over 20,000 from digital products.
Akta: That's crazy. So that's your wallpapers the.
Oliur: and the course. So the course has definitely helped boost that up. I'd say the, because the course is obviously a quite a much more high ticket item, like the price of it is like $200, um, compared to preset, which are like 39 and the wallpapers, which are 14. So, um, yeah, this month has been a very good month.
I think on average it goes anywhere between five to 10,000, but. But because we've released this new course, I'm hoping that I can sort of keep it at, at a consistent 20,000 or more every month.
Akta: Yeah. And how much time actually goes into creating digital products? Like how long do you spend versus creating content?
Oliur: Yeah. Uh, that's a good question actually, because people are always interested. I think what helps is that I've, I already have the, the sort of design skills or like photo editing skills that I've learned before. So, That all sort of accumulates into, oh, I can just spend an afternoon making a wallpaper pack, or I can just spend an afternoon making some presets.
So it might sound easy, like, oh, you know, I've just spent an afternoon making this. But I think it's also just years of just learning to have sort of accumulated to this one point. Yeah, and I think that's something people forget. So, yeah, like I, I think a good example is actually my, I had a minimal icon pack that came out in 2020.
I dunno if you remember when iOS, when iPhone after. Yeah. I remember that. Updated and the customization thing was like very popular at that, at that moment. I remember making that icon pack in an afternoon. It was like an afternoon of work and it's so funny cuz the same day I had to go for chemo the same day.
Oh, oh gosh. But yeah, I made that pack in the afternoon and then I, I just put it off for sale and I think it's at like 40,000 and I haven't touched it since. Wow. That's crazy. Yeah. Like I think to myself, oh, that's only an afternoon of work. But it's not really, it's like years of learning how to use Figma, years of learning how to make icons and stuff.
Yeah. And obviously having the audience in the first place.
Akta: Yeah. And how often do you have to take that step back then saying, oh, okay. Like, sh, maybe I should add more digital products. Or is it more when you see trends and things like that? Like how often are you reassessing and taking a step back?
Oliur: Yeah, it's it, there is definitely not like a specific structure that I have.
It is very much. I, I'm your typical sort of creative person where when I have a creative sauce, but I'm thinking, okay, I wanna make this, I wanna make that, and then there'll be like weeks or months where I'm just like, Hmm, I'm not in the mood for making anything. Um, so yeah, it really is all over the place.
But I think what's great about digital products is that you, as you keep making more and more, you have a sort of catalog that gets bigger and bigger. And you don't have to like physical products, you don't have to worry about stock. Right? Cuz it's a digital product, it's always there. So my plan is, is to just keep making that catalog bigger and bigger so that over time it just naturally just makes money without really, without me having to really do much upkeep.
Akta: What have your been your favorite types of products to create for your business?
Oliur: I think the presets for sure, because I'm just so into photography. Yeah. And I think presets is, is like one of the best ones. And it's very focused. It's very hyper focused, cuz not everyone else there is going to buy some presets, but the people who do I found really enjoy them.
And you know, they kind of are interested in getting the same look. So they're definitely something that. I enjoy the most, I think. Yeah.
Akta: And I like how you kind of build that intrigue with Twitter as well when you post your photos and Yeah. Um, do you get a lot of interest even from doing that?
Oliur: Yeah. Yeah.
The, it's so funny. That's, that's, I'm so glad you mentioned that because every time I, I post like a grid of four photos of anything from maybe a recent trip or a product or something, you know, um, someone does ask like, oh, you know, what research do you use? And I always link to them. So for people who are interested, they will find them, but I don't like specifically shove it down to everyone, everyone's throat all the time.
I'm very much sort of, I like doing quite soft marketing. Mm-hmm. Rather than sort of like constant.
Akta: Yeah. No, I think that's a good approach. Do does your, like what products that you want to sell, does that ever influence your choices for what content to create? Like do you ever think, okay, this is what I want my business to look like, so this is what I need my channels to look like?
Or is it that you're building your channels and then the products kind of just come after?
Oliur: Yeah, I think I'm building the channels and the products come after for sure. Okay, fine. And I think the video credit course is the perfect example of that. So I never even thought to myself of making like a video credit course.
I never thought to myself of like teaching other people how to get the same look that I get. It's only after seeing so many comments and so many emails from people being like, Hey, how did you set up your camera? How, what cameras do you use? What lighting do you use? How do you set it all up? Cuz I think it's not just the gear, it's the actual process and the scene set up and things.
That's what people are interested in. And I never really thought about that before cause I kind of just did it naturally. Um, and what also helped was that I recently hired a videographer, an editor, permanent, and he's in-house. And I thought to myself, this is actually the perfect time because he has to learn everything from me.
Yeah. I have to teach him everything. So why don't I just make it this into a course as well? Um, so yeah, the, the audience definitely defines what products I make, I
Akta: think. Yeah. And how do you decide what platforms to use? So platforms to sell your digital products on, and even like the course, how did you decide, you know, where you want to host your course and things like that?
I'm especially asking because of everything that's happened with Gun Road as well. Like, I'm interested to know like, What influences your decision making on that sort of stuff? Yeah,
Oliur: for sure. I think when it comes to what influences me there is, it's very much like monetary stuff. So go mode, obviously up their rate to like 10% and it just didn't make financial sense.
Cuz I'll be losing out on hundreds, even thousands of dollars a month. Um, yeah. Right now if I, yeah, 20,000. Yeah. If I made 20,000 through Gum Road, I'd be losing $2,000, like instantly with Pay Hip, the platform I'm using now. Great thing about Pay Hip is they handle the E U V A T for me so they don't have to worry about tax.
They can handle that for me, and they only charge $99 a month for the plan that I'm on. And obviously there's transaction fees on top, so it's so, it's just a lot less compared to what Gun Road are doing right now.
Akta: Yeah. And what about courses?
Oliur: So the course right now is also sold through gum, uh, through through Pay Hip, sorry.
Oh, okay. Um, right now it's sold through Pay Hip, but I am looking at like, as it grows, I'm looking at maybe doing something else. But Pay Hip has a course sort of functionality built in. Which is pretty cool. I just haven't properly used it yet because we were sort of in a rush of just, let's just get it out there and then we can figure things out later.
Akta: Yeah. And how did you choose your core structure? So versus like, you know, doing like a live cohort course, which a lot of creators seemed to be doing. Like how did you decide what was right for you? So
Oliur: a live cohort to me seemed like a nightmare. Like, it doesn't seem like fun. Like obviously I, I'm good friends with Allie Ally Abdo and like I speak to him quite regularly.
And even he's just like, it's great money. He's making amazing money. He made like $2 million from his latest cohort, but he's actually winding down the live cohorts now because he doesn't really enjoy doing them anymore. Um, and to me kind of just like setting aside four weeks, six weeks, whatever. To just do a course just doesn't seem like fun.
I would much rather have something that someone can do, um, at their own sort of pace, and that I don't really have to constantly monitor them. I won't make as much money as like someone like Ali. Definitely, like live cohorts make a lot more money, but that's not really an issue for me. Like, um, I don't really care too much about that.
I'd rather just make it more. I'd rather have my life easier than make it more difficult. Yeah.
Akta: Yeah. And I guess it goes back to what you were saying about digital products in the first place. It's almost, you do it once and then it's quite passive after. So I guess yeah. Live cohort's takeaway from that as well.
Exactly. Yeah. Um, what's been the most important lesson that you've learned since producing and selling your own digital products online?
Oliur: I think the most important lesson I know is that, From doing physical products and digital products, I would pick digital products over physical products every day.
Like it's just so much easier. So, so much easier. Um, and I, it's so much more profitable as well. Like it's, it's ridiculous and it's sort of made me more focused on digital products. Because of it. And now I'm kind of leaning into, okay, if I can make digital products, can I make software? Can I do software as a service?
Can I sell software? And I'm sort of exploring those ideas right now.
Akta: Wow, that's very cool. What advice would you give to creators who want to start selling digital products online and they're trying to figure out what's the right product for their audience?
Oliur: See, yeah, that's a good one. I actually think it's more important to build the audience first and like if, if, cause.
It seems, it's really bizarre to me. So many people are allergic, almost allergic to marketing. They don't wanna market themselves. They don't wanna like market their product. They just wanna make something and it instantly gets sells. And that doesn't make any sense. That's not how it works. You, if you make an, you could make one of the best products in the world, but if you don't know how to market it or you don't market it, no one's gonna know, no one's going to buy it.
So I think it's actually more important working out your marketing funnel. Because then the products actually come a lot easier later on. Mm-hmm.
Akta: And how did you decide what your marketing funnels would be? So why did you decide, you know, U YouTube Twitter newsletter? I think you've started, you've been growing a lot on Instagram as well recently.
Like how do you decide Yeah. What the best way to go about that funnel is?
Oliur: Yeah, I think that depends on the product. So like presets for example, Instagram is like the perfect place for presets cuz it is. All I'm posting is pictures, um, on YouTube and Instagram wallpapers work well because obviously I'm using wallpapers on my devices when I cover them on, on YouTube and on Instagram.
Um, video credit course is something that's going through my newsletter, uh, because I think people who follow me on, on like my newsletter. Are more likely to be interested in something like that. But I do have an upcoming video, for example, on my tech channel where I'm doing a tour of my sort of creative studio.
And that will also be a marketing funnel for me, for my course. So at the end of the video, I'll be saying, you know, if, if you guys are more interested in how I actually make videos, how I set up scenes and stuff, check out the course. Um, So the marketing funnel can really change depending on the product.
And uh, and it also, like I said earlier, I think, I think it also depends on the audience. If, if the audience is requesting stuff, they're requesting stuff from you, those are the perfect avenues to work out, okay, I can make additional product out of this, or I can make something out of this that can possibly make money.
Akta: do you think has helped you to grow on all of these platforms whilst also building trust with your audience that they would actually want to buy products from you?
Akta: you can pick yourself up now.
Oliur: Um, so I think the actual percentage of people that are going to buy products from you is ridiculously small.
Like it's really, really tiny. Um, and what I've realized is that when you get the odd sort of comment here and there of people saying like, oh, this is too expensive, or like, you are a sellout or whatever else, that does not bother me at all because I think to myself, that person. Doesn't really understand that, like, well, they're not really a true sort of like follower in a way.
I'm not necessarily, I'm not necessarily saying that someone who is really interested is gonna buy a product, buy a product from you. They're not, they don't have to buy a product from you. But if they can understand why you're doing it in the first place, I th that's really valuable I think. I think that.
Hope, hopefully sort of you build trust in that sort of way. It sort of goes both ways, I guess. Um, But I think it's also just not coming across as like deceiving or like, I think you just build trust over time as you keep consistently putting out good content, hopefully.
Akta: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And what do you think makes good content so that people are actually attracted to
Oliur: what you're doing now?
That's, that's so hard. I honestly, I honestly dunno what makes good content. I, I, half the time think to myself. You know, when I make a video, I, I get the same feeling as I'm sure every creator does, where like, I make a video, I'm like, are people actually gonna watch this? Yeah. Are people gonna like
Akta: this? Oh, I get that feeling
Oliur: all the time.
So like, I, I think regardless of how big you are, you could be someone with a hundred subscribers, you could be someone with 10 million subscribers. Everyone goes through that feeling. I think the difference is you just gotta put it out there and hope that people like it. And then, and then based off of.
Like what people like keep doing more of what people like. I don't think you can really figure out what people like until you start sharing it in the first place. Yeah,
Akta: and I, I think there's like some creators who have like millions of subscribers and then. Channels that have much smaller audiences, but they're actually making more money from their business.
Yes. Yeah. What do you think differentiates the two?
Oliur: Yeah, good point. I, I think it all depends on, uh, the target market you're going for on YouTube. Like for example, my target market is definitely people who are interested, obviously in tech, right? So most of those people who come to my channel are going to usually have some money to spend on tech.
So, uh, they're already primed to be in that money spending sort of phase. They're like looking at new products. They're looking at, uh, what is the latest gadget or whatever. So they're already primed on like, if I like this, I'm gonna spend money. But that's not the same case as someone who's like an entertainer on YouTube or like someone who's doing like com, like comedic stuff.
Or like someone who's like Mr. Beast. Um, They're just going in for entertainment. They're not going in specifically to ar I'm going to spend money. Yeah.
Akta: So do you think niche is really important when you decide to become a creator and set up a business and start selling digital
Oliur: products then for making money?
Yes. I think if, if you are specifically set on trying to make money, I think choosing a specific niche can help. But I also think it needs to be a niche that you, that you can see yourself doing for like five years, 10 years. Mm-hmm. Cause obviously I've been doing YouTube technically since 2015. Um, But I've only really started doing it properly in the last, like three years, I'd say.
Since 2020? Yeah. 2019. That sort of time, um, as I realized, oh wow, okay. YouTube is making me a lot more money. Maybe I should start focusing on
Akta: this. Yeah. I mean, and you've also been creating products online since 2010, you said. What has kept you going for all that time? Like what drives you?
Oliur: I think it is just because I love doing it.
Yeah. There is no other answer really. There is literally just a matter of I love doing what I do, and I think that's what, that's what sort of makes the difference. I think if, if you don't love doing what you do, then you're not going to stick at it. Yeah. But you can't for, this is the thing. I think a lot of people, they see people like me making money online and they think they can do it even if they don't love it and I, I, I think the hard truth is that.
If you don't have your heart in it, it's gonna be really hard to sustain. Yeah. Because you've gotta do it even when you're not making
Akta: money. Yeah, exactly. And what does your time actually look like? Like how, you know, like what does a typical day look like? How much are you spending on, you know, producing videos versus designing things, photography, because there's a, there's a lot that you are doing.
Oliur: I know, even I think to myself, like, I dunno how I do it all. Um, but yeah, I'd say I spend around maybe two, three days a week on YouTube. Can be more depending on, uh, what videos I'm making or depending on what I'm doing. And then the rest of the time is really just whatever I feel like in the moment. So, um, you know, one day I might be like, okay, I wanna, you know, uh, make an Uber paper pack, or I wanna make a bunch of new presets.
Or another day I might be like, oh, I wanna work on a website. Some days I might not actually be making anything and I might just be learning something like, for example, I've been spending quite a bit of time learning framer, uh, and just trying to work out what is possible with framer. So yeah, my time is, I'm quite lucky.
I can really be quite flexible with my time. No, that's really
Akta: cool. I'm gonna end with a quick fire round now. So I'm gonna ask you five questions that I ask all creators that come on air, starting with what's your favorite thing about being a creator
Oliur: online? I think it's the instant reward of being able to see responses and sort of sales and, and sort of engagement from people online, from like followers and whatever else.
Akta: That's a good answer. And what's something that gives you the most inspiration for what you create?
Oliur: Movies and TV shows. Oh really? Of all things. Yeah. How'd you draw? I watch. I watch of movies and TV shows. How'd you draw
Akta: inspiration from that into like your own work?
Oliur: So like, I could see like a, a movie or a TV show and I could see something in it, like a shot or a look or something like that.
And I'm like, I wanna put that in my YouTube video. I wanna make a similar thing for a YouTube video. Oh, that's
Akta: so interesting. And what's one tour that helps you the most as a creator?
Oliur: Probably my camera, the one that I'm using. And what camera is it? I'm currently using an FX three for this. Um, but I, it can really change.
I'm not tied to a specific camera. Yeah. It's whatever I think works for my current situation.
Akta: And what's something that helps with your creator work-life balance?
Oliur: Definitely the fact that I don't work on the evenings and I don't work on the weekends either. So what time do you
Akta: usually switch off Bo?
Oliur: So I only usually work from like 11 till six.
Okay. Right now. Um, go to the gym in the morning, spend some cuz usually the great thing about my gym is that I, I feel like I've, I, I've made a lot of friends at that gym, so it's almost like going to school in a way. So I'm going there to socialize and work out at the same time. Go to the office, work until six, come home.
And then usually spend my evenings like doing whatever I wanna do, whether that's gaming, watching movies, TV shows, making dinner, whatever. It's just relaxing. Yeah.
Akta: No, I think that's so important. And what's one piece of advice that you'd give to other creators?
Oliur: I think it, it's what I mentioned earlier. I think if you don't have a passion for it, if you, if you don't really love what you're doing, it's gonna be hard to sustain.
Akta: Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's so true. Thank you so much for coming on air and thanks for having me sharing your knowledge on digital products. I think it was so interesting and I think it's a great revenue stream for a lot of creators that will be listening.
Oliur: For sure. Hopefully. I hope. Cause I think everyone, every sort of creator has, has potential to make some sort of digital product.
It can be anything. There's so many different ideas out there, and I think they're only going to expand further. In the future,
Akta: you can find Oliur on his website, alia.com, his two YouTube channels, Twitter and Instagram. And if you are a creator doing sponsorships, check out Passion Fruit. We help you do sponsorships without the hassle.
I'll see you in the next one.